Lucien Bouchard, the charismatic sovereigntist who almost led Quebec out of Canada in 1995, says neither independence nor the status quo will solve Quebec's potential decline.

Bouchard is part of a group of prominent Quebecers, including federalists and separatists, who want a debate on the demographic and economic challenges the province will face in the coming years. The pitfalls include a low birthrate, an aging population and increased global competition.

Bouchard said Wednesday the challenges facing Quebec are greater than its political options.

"If you're saying to me that we must achieve sovereignty first to settle this, that's not what I think," he told a news conference.

However, he said he's issuing a "wake-up call" about Quebec but is not sounding an alarm.

Bouchard, who stepped down as Parti Quebecois premier in 2001, doesn't often speak publicly about Quebec in such terms as a private citizen. He was passionate and premier-like in his delivery, commanding respect and attention.

He said members of the group, which include film producer Denise Robert and Andre Pratte, chief editorial writer at Montreal La Presse, don't want a political debate.

"On this very important and fundamental question - we agree to disagree," said Bouchard, who became leader of the sovereigntist Yes side during the 1995 referendum campaign.

"We know perfectly well that Quebecers will have to make a choice and whatever they decide those challenges that we define today will have to be taken on, right now."

But Bouchard noted there's a "certain indifference and collective reticence" by Quebecers to tackle these problems.

The group issued what it calls a manifesto - entitled For a Clear-Eyed Vision of Quebec - that outlines obstacles facing Quebec.

At issue is the survival of a French-speaking Quebec in North America that must also meet the global challenges of having a highly skilled, educated and multilingual workforce as well as fighting increased trade competition with Asia, particularly China and India.

"We are concerned," says the manifesto. "Concerned for the Quebec we love. Concerned for our people, who have weathered many storms but who seem oblivious to the dangers that today threaten its future."

Bouchard said as the father of two boys he's concerned about the kind of Quebec they will inherit.

"I'm the father of a family like many others here. We're raising young teenagers who are 14 and 15 years old. I'm looking at the future of my children. I look ahead and I say to myself that we have to do something."

But Bouchard, who has been criticized in the past for speaking out about Quebec's low birthrate, said he realizes people can't be told to have children.

"I don't think it would be healthy to expect a surge of demography as a solution."

Economist Pierre Fortin, also a member of the panel, said in 2025 there will be two workers in Quebec for every elderly person.

The demographic and public finance problems go beyond any constitutional choices, Fortin said.

"The aging population will tear Quebec apart." he predicted, leaving it in a billion-dollar hole that neither political option could readily fix.

Premier Jean Charest noted when he first became leader of the provincial Liberals in 1998, he was shot down by Bouchard and others when he expressed some of the same concerns. Charest said he was accused of trying to destroy the Quebec way of doing things.

Charest agreed it's not easy to bring about change but said "I've been perfectly consistent" on the need for change.

The manifesto proposes an open debate among Quebecers.

It suggests massive investments in education, training and languages, reducing the public debt, opening the door to private-sector involvement and lifting the freeze on post-secondary tuition fees.

It also recommends major tax reform and increasing electricity rates to bring in more provincial revenues to pay down the debt.